1. What led to the
formation of GetTheLOut?
We are a group of
Lesbians who have worked together for many years (although we did not have a
name then). We have been quite alarmed for some time about the way the
trans-ideology and trans-activism is erasing women and women’s rights. Some of
us have been active on this issue for some time, some have joined more
recently. We have organised several actions in the past, separately or as a
group, or as part of other groups. For this particular action we were inspired
by the other actions in Prides all over the world (starting with the New
Zealand protest this year) and wanted to show solidarity with women worldwide
as it is a global problem affecting us all.
2.
It was incredibly courageous to stand up for your beliefs in front of
such a huge crowd at a flagship event. What led you and your friends to take
such an enormous step?
The action has been
often wrongly described as a protest against Pride. The truth is, if we had any
hope that Pride in London would have recognised our demands we probably would
have gone about it in a totally different way. For years we have witnessed the
way the LGBT has been targeting Lesbians and have become very disillusioned.
Our action was for
women everywhere. To take direct action to that level of visibility was to send
women everywhere a message of hope, strength and sisterhood, and of course to
raise awareness of the issue we face as Lesbians particularly. It has been
wonderful to see so many groups of women organising talks all over the
country about the way the GRA is affecting women’s rights. With that action we
wanted to put a focus on Lesbians and the way the trans-ideology is affecting
us specifically, particularly the way the sexual rights of men who call
themselves “transwomen” or “lesbians” take priority over the rights of Lesbians
to define their sexuality.
Today, in the GBT
community, Lesbians can no longer say that they would not date a “transwoman,”
because this is now considered “transphobic”; same-sex attraction is called
“hate speech”. The GBT is naming females who are attracted to other females
“bigoted” or “hateful” and it is a way to deny women’s right to have sexual
boundaries under the name of “inclusivity” and progress. It is a clear
anti-lesbian propaganda which enforces compulsory heterosexuality on a group of
people who have already said “no” to men and who have already have had their
sexual boundaries disrespected.
The other point we
were making is equally important: “gender non-conforming” girls, (girls
who do not perform femininity) are transitioned at a shocking rate in the UK.
As Lesbians, and as feminists who campaign against sexists stereotypes, we
firmly oppose the transition of young lesbians on the basis that their
appearance or behaviour does not conform to traditionally accepted images of
women. The trans-movement is a conservative movement which reinforces sexist
stereotypes and opposes homosexuality because it promotes the social transition
of lesbians, encouraging them to present as straight men thus favouring the
pretence of heterosexuality over lesbianism – this is a form of conversion
therapy. When the trans-ideology promotes the medical transition of Lesbians
and pushes harmful drugs as well as unnecessary medical practices on healthy
female bodies, we understand this as a form of misogynist medical abuse against
women and girls.
3.
Did you expect the reaction that you've unleashed and can you describe
some of it for us?
The first reaction
after the trans-activists outrage on Twitter was from Pride in London rushing
to make a statement to condemn our action as “bigoted”, “hateful” and
“ignorant”. Pride believes that Lesbians are an “issue (which) must be stamped
out”. The press has overwhelmingly condemned our action too; very few media
outlets have represented our views fairly or even asked us for comment.
Being doxx’d, losing
friends, social media war accompanied with the usual death and rape threats by
trans-activists, the Marketing and Fundraising Director of Pride in London,
Polly Shute, coming onto one woman’s Facebook page to tell her that she would
be contacting her employers to get her sacked because of her hateful conduct.
All this is the violent but usual way patriarchy reacts to women who
dissent.
For those of us who
have been doing this for years, we did expect it. The only option the GBT and
the trans-community (and the compliant mainstream behind them) had, was to
unleash this massive backlash. The aim of the backlash is to threaten and
strike women back into compliance, to make sure women don’t get ideas, like
start protesting like we did in a direct and visible way. That is why they
strike so hard. To scare women off.
The message sent out
to all young lesbians by all the mainstream LGBT organisations and the press
has been that being a lesbian with sexual boundaries is “transphobic” and that
lesbians have no place at Pride and need to be stamped out! 7 LGBT
organisations are throwing Lesbians under the bus in the interests of
trans-ideology and this outright misogyny and homophobia has been clearly understood
by women.
The second aspect of
the reaction, and the most important one, has been women’s reaction to the
action. We have received a huge amount of messages publicly, but even more
privately, from women saying how they support us but also how they feel
threatened and silenced WITHIN THE GBT to say anything like this. The GBT today
IS the closet for most Lesbians, our action has highlighted that. We definitely
represent that silenced majority.
The other thing to say
is that a lot of women are now so used to death and rape threats online that it
looks like the effects are wearing off. Women are not scared anymore. We are
speaking up more and more.
4.
Do you feel that the LGBT organisations are hearing your voice?
Have any of them contacted you to hear your side of things?
Nope, and by
condemning our action they have in fact confirmed what we thought of them being
anti-lesbians and misogynist.
5.
There's clearly a divide in the lesbian community concerning trans
rights. Can you tell me more about how this is affecting you?
Trans-ideology does
not recognise sexual difference. For trans-activists a woman is not an
adult human female but an identity, feeling in a man’s head. Women: adult
human females, are socialised to be empathetic and to be “good” or “likeable”
and to give way to other people’s feelings. Many women in the Lesbian
community have swallowed trans-ideologies’ inclusivity-branding whole and want
to be kind to these men.
Many women have been
told more than once that they are mean for stating biological facts, that a
male is a man, and not a woman, regardless of how he might feel. Some
women have internalised the idea that standing up to men who want to gaslight
Lesbians into accepting that male sexual anatomy is female, is transphobic
bigotry. But standing up for one’s right is not mean. Calling out men who
want to co-opt all single-sex provision, including Lesbian events, and who
advocate for medical experimentation on children is not mean.
Almost all lesbian
events have been rebranded “LGBTQ”, “Queer”, “open to all genders”, or to
“whoever identify as a woman” not simply to be inclusive but to avoid the
inevitable conflict that would arise if a strictly Lesbian event was held.
Men who want to be recognised as women demand “inclusion” at Lesbian
events because if sexually attracted to women they say they are Lesbians. Of
course they are not. They are heterosexual males
A lot of Lesbians try
to organise Lesbian events, but a lot of them find it impossible to make their
events Lesbian-only because of the grief that the trans-activists would cause.
That’s bullying, and it’s leading to a complete absence of any exclusively Lesbian
spaces - at least organised openly: a lot is happening underground. There is
absolutely no point in going to mainstream GBT organisations for support as
they have been entirely taken over by the trans-lobby.
I would also add that
a lot of lesbians in the GBT have either transitioned or are very close to
women who have transitioned. These women stand by “transmen”, they validate
their decisions in order not to lose them as friends even if they may feel
critical of the whole thing. But also because there is no alternative way of
thinking within the GBT; a lot of young lesbians have never been in a
lesbian-only space, never had access to lesbian feminist theory, so “queer” is
the only way they have ever thought about themselves. For these women, there is
a belief that radical feminists are anti-trans, meaning anti transmen.
Radical feminists
though, do not think the experience of men who transition and the experience of
women who transition are similar in any way. We think of men who transition as men,
and as such, we see them as members of the oppressors class: they want to
invade our spaces and disrespect our sexual boundaries, the way any other men
behave. The majority of them do not have surgery (it means they still have
their penises) or hormonal “treatment“ of any kind. But if we listen to the
stories of women who detransitioned, it looks like women and girls who
transition do it to avoid the misogyny they experience as women and girls, to
avoid the constraint and restrains of femininity. This disconnection to their
womanhood is done at great cost to their physical health because they do have
double mastectomies and do take testosterone. So we understand them as
oppressed in this system. How this affects us is that the whole ideology is
used to separate women, it is a classic divide and conquer tactic.
6.
Why do you think gay men are not targeted in the same way lesbians are by
TRAs? And on the flip side, why aren't gay men standing up with lesbians and
calling out the TRA homophobia?
Gay men are not
targeted because they are men. They do not experience sexism and misogyny, they
do not have their sexual boundaries constantly questioned and disrespected. So
even if trans-activists have been saying homosexuality is inherently
transphobic in practice, it is not gay men’s spaces which are being invaded and
destroyed, it is not gay men’s rights to have same-sex relationships which are
being stamped out. Certainly, I have never heard a single case of a woman who
identifies as trans invading gay men’s spaces and demanding sex with them. As
far as I know #CunnilingusForGayMen is not a thing! But the #cottonceiling is.
Clearly identification
does not erase a life of socialisation: Men who call themselves “trans women”
and demand to have sex with Lesbians behave like any other men. It comes as no
surprise.
Gay men, in the vast
majority, are at best unconcerned by Lesbian issues, and at worse actively
working against us. A tiny minority sees through it but there are not enough of
them to make any difference. The answer to why would probably be found in the
dynamic within sexes working in mixed spaces where men’s concerns are usually
seen as universal and women’s concerns dismissed as irrelevant. GBT is then a
male sexual rights movement (including all sorts of anti-feminist practises
from BDSM to bestiality), so is the trans movement. It seems natural they stand
together.
7.
In the current climate, what advice would you give young lesbians?
This is really
important. First remember what you know: a penis is not female. It’s a
bad sign (even if you haven’t clearly stated that you are a lesbian), if a man,
young or old, tells you his penis is female. This is called gaslighting.
Gaslighting is a form of emotional manipulation and the gaslighting abuser will
try to make their intended victim question reality and even their sanity.
If a man tell you his penis is female and you should accept to have a
sexual relationship with him, this is outright coercive and rapey.
If your so-called
friends or any man (sometimes calling themselves “trans women”), on or offline,
tell you that you are a bigot for not accepting that a penis can be female,
this is not true and a sure sign you should take some distance with that
person. You are not a bigot. You are sane. You are an amazing young woman who
knows what’s what, who knows who she is, what she wants and where her sexual
boundaries are.
If your friends tell
you you are a bigot for not accepting that a penis is female and they cannot be
friends with you then ask yourself if you want to be friends with someone who
denies biological facts. Its sounds harsh, and it is hard to feel isolated, but
there are times where it is better to be alone than to be in a group that is
emotionally manipulative and abusive.
If you feel different
from other girls, don’t feel attracted to boys, don’t want to wear girl
clothes, dislike make-up, like your hair short, or like sports traditionally
associated with boys, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU! None of this means you
are born in the wrong body, none of this mean you are a boy, none of it means
you need to transition. Many women and many Lesbians have experienced what is
now called “gender dysphoria” and certainly the majority of women have
experienced body dysmorphia. They both are manifestations of what feminists
have called internalised misogyny. This self-hatred is what it is like to be a
girl and a woman in patriarchy, where we only receive negative messages about
us. Transitioning will not solve any of your suffering, having your breasts
surgically removed will never turn you into a male, and it will not remove the
pain because the problem is not with you or your body, the problem is with our
society which hates women and girls.
So for those lesbians
who are in the GBT but silently critical for fear of being ostracised, or
worse, I would say leave the GBT community, leave the queer spaces now. The GBT
is enforcing their brainwashing based on lies, reversals and imaginary fabrications,
they enforce the lies with threats of violence or actual violence which disable
our capacity to see clearly who the oppressor actually is, let alone be
critical. It is very visible that a lot of pro-trans-activist group (say the
ones which have been targeting gender critical events, for example) are
male-centred and male-led.
It is crucial women
find like-minded women so they can think clearly outside of the mass
gaslighting that is going on everywhere else. This is why women-only spaces are
forbidden. Because men cannot monitor what we think when we are in them.
It is crucial we all
act and speak out as much as we can at this point. It is really exciting to see
so many Lesbians protesting pride and dyke march events. We hope there will be
more protests, more public meeting, more women speaking out. Any form of
visible dissent is important, as our rights as women and as Lesbians are
threatened to the point of erasure. We need to be standing our ground as never
before.
8.
What's the general feeling in the lesbian community?
A large number of
Lesbians were opposed to bolting the T onto LGB organisations simply because
they did not understand what gender has to do with sexual orientation.
Obviously, the more it becomes apparent that trans-ideology is anti-lesbian,
the more women are speaking. But speaking out is not easy, especially because
the trans-lobby is so well resourced and trans-activists will do everything
they can to ensure you are labelled a terf, socially ostracised and lose your
job. Not to mention the threat of outright violence.
Within the GBT,
Lesbians have had to agree and go along with the trans-ideology simply because
as soon as anyone disagrees with the “trans women are women” mantra, women are
simply excluded.
9.
Have you encountered women who have had first-hand experiences of
homophobia in the guise of pro-trans rights?
We ARE women who have
first-hand experience of this. All of us have. We have lost lesbians spaces and
women-only festivals, we have been threatened in our own communities by males
who call themselves lesbians, who invade and demand to be accepted, penis and
all. We fear to go to Lesbians bars, let alone Lesbian dating sites for fear of
meeting a man pretending to be a lesbian. We have been threatened when we have
organised events. Our gathering are still happening but they happen underground
most of the time. This is real and it is happening right now.
10.
What's next for GetTheLOut?
Wait and see!
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